the Pitzer egment of the 13th Verion documentary,
lifted from the JFK Lancer Forum,
under the topic Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment, March 20-23, 2004
(reproduced by kind permiion of JFK Lancer Forum Adminitrator Debra Conway)
The 2003 documentary, Kennedy� Aaination: 13th Verion, produced in Canada for a Ruian audience, contain a egment on the Pitzer cae. The tory i related by ex-pecial Force Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Marvin with hi voice over-dubbed in Ruian; Englih ubtitle are provided along the bottom of the creen. The text of the ubtitle and a ketch of the death cene contain inaccuracie.
(URL provided in the original; click on "Return" above)
2, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Have you ever aked Marvin if he would ubmit to a polygraph tet?
3, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Dr. Eagleham.. ref: your # 32541
I am pleaed to advie Tim Toidze of your remark regarding "13th Verion" to do with a he deire. They follow:
I couldn't help but notice that you didn't ay anything good about their effort to get the truth out. Or - did I mi that?
Went through your excellent work - "13th Verion" - and truly admire you for what you did to bring the truth to the Ruian people. There are a few error that were highlighted on a heavily watched Forum - JFK Lancer..
One item deal with the date that are hown in Englih ubtitle when I peak of being aked to kill LCDR Pitzer and when her actually wa killed. I believe I aid (a I did in the Nigel Turner film "The Truth hall Make You Free) I wa aked to kill Pitzer the firt week of Augut 1965 and that he wa killed in October 1966. Perhap the error i only in the Englih ubtitle. Knew you'd want to know.
Another relate to the ketch of Pitzer' death cene. It bother ome that the body i hown lying face up with the pitol in the right hand. The actual invetigatory report tell of the body being face down and the pitol on the floor near the body.
For what it worth - what follow i a poting by Dr. Allan Eagleham on the JFKLancer Forum. (Nte: I copied your poting unto my e-mail to Tim)
4, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Only about a week ago you poted thi:
#32051, "Ruian Documentary - Now with Englih ubtitle"
Dear Forum member - I am indeed pleae to tell you that the joint effort by Canadian and Ruian ha brought to Ruian theater and TV a JFK Aaination Documentary. It i jut now available to you.
A dynamite documentary titled "13th Verion" ha been produced for a Ruian audience and wa firt hown in Ruia thi pat November. I feel bleed that the producer, Tim Toidze, ha made it poible for you to obtain a ubtitled Englih verion. I am honored to be a part of thi documentary. Lat year Tim Toidze and a cameraman came to Cazenovia and filmed my part in a local motel. Thi i a great film on VH Tape that bring (2 part on ame tape) out for the firt time, information that pinpoint then VP Lyndon B. Johnon a one of the conpirator and leave no doubt in your mind of U military, CIA and Mafia collaboration in that terrible crime.
John 8:32 And ye hall know the truth, and the truth hall make you free.
Contact Ekaterina Litchak at
How could you recommend it to the member of thi forum without the caveat that the artit' impreion of the death cene i inaccurate in almot all key apect? How many time have you viewed it?
You aid, "It bother ome that the body i hown lying face up with the pitol in the right hand." IT BOTHER OME? In other word, it doen't bother you. That ay it all.
5, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
>I am pleaed to advie Tim Toidze of your remark regarding
Oh ye, I am ure you are pleaed... "To do with a he deire?" What are hi option? The darn thing i finihed and ha already been hown. The hore ha bolted and diappeared beyond the horizon. No apology from you to Toidze I note for getting o much of the tory wrong.
>I couldn't help but notice that you didn't ay anything good >about their effort to get the truth out. Or - did I mi >that?
No, you didn't mi it. You are aking the wrong peron. It would be like aying, "Apart from that Mr. Lincoln, did you enjoy the how?"
>Went through your excellent work - "13th Verion" - and truly >admire you for what you did to bring the truth to the Ruian >people. There are a few error that were highlighted on a >heavily watched Forum - JFK Lancer..
Excellent work? Truth? Talk about adding inult to injury! (Oh, and by the way Tim, old chap, there are a few little er... error, mall mitake that Eagleham ha picked up -- thought I had better end them along to you... nothing of any importance, really...") I thi the truth that make u free that you keep talking about?
>One item deal with the date...(etc.)
What about the other item I lited?
You touted thi documentary on thi forum. Had you viewed it before doing o? If you hadn't viewed it, you had no buine recommending that people fork out hard cah for it. If you had viewed it how could you ignore the nonene preented in the ketch?
Excellent work? Truth? Al Carrier, where are you? Pamela Ray, where are you? Wim Dankbaar, where are you?
6, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
For all I know - the only error were in the Englih ubtitle wit exception of the ketch. The ketch wa mot likely drawn by omeone who litened to what had been recorded by the TV crew and drew a murder cene a he or he depicted it.
The main thing RIGHT that Tim Toidze did that wa both pat due and courageou wa in getting the truth out about the FACT that Kennedy wa murdered by a government conpiracy and that LCDR Pitzer wa aainated a a part of the coverup of the JFK aaination. I know it, the people who perpetrated it know it and the world hould know it. No matter how they doctor photograph of Pitzer or play with word in the autopy in both cae, they will never prove that there wa no conpiracy. THEY DID AK ME TO MURDER PITZER.. I know that for a fact. DENNI DAVID know more than they (Congre) ever want to hear in a formal eion... Ak Congre why they haven't called u forward. IF and when the Ruian documentary i re-done for an Englih peaking audience - it will be right in Englih. I am aured of that.
Enough aid from thi end on thi pecific matter. Write or call Tim Toidze if you have any further comment. I did not pay for, produce, or will I benefit from it - now or then.
7, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
>For all I know - the only error were in the Englih ubtitle wit exception of the ketch.
"For all you know?" ay what? I have pinpointed the error and embellihment. The onu i on you to explain which are due to you and which are due to poor production method, or whatever. Are you aying that the text of the ubtitle i at odd with your word? If o, why aren't you mad a hell?
>The ketch wa mot likely drawn by omeone who litened to what had been recorded by the TV crew and drew a murder cene a he or he depicted it. <
Wa anything recorded by the TV crew other than your word? If not then you are fully reponible for the nonene therein. If o, whoe word were they? And why wa note taken of omeone o ignorant of the cae?
>The main thing RIGHT that Tim Toidze did that wa both pat due and courageou wa in getting the truth out about the FACT that Kennedy wa murdered by a government conpiracy<
"The main thing RIGHT that Tim Toidze did?" By thi choice of word are you implying that what i wrong with thi documentary i Toidze' fault? If that i not what you are hinting, then you -- or omebody behind the cene -- owe Toidze a big apology for ullying hi work with the nonene perpetrated in the Pitzer egment.
>and that LCDR Pitzer wa aainated a a part of the coverup of the JFK aaination.<
Where i your proof that LCDR Pitzer wa murdered if it in't in term of hi being left-handed yet the revolver wa found in hi right hand?
>No matter how they doctor photograph of Pitzer<
Have you een the autopy photograph? What evidence have you that they were doctored?
>they will never prove that there wa no conpiracy.<
Thi i the firt reaonable tatement you have made for ome time. Proving a negative i mighty difficult.
>THEY DID AK ME TO MURDER PITZER..<
Perhap. But given that you are reponible for thi crock, I imagine that you have haken the confidence of ome who until now accepted your CIA-contract-on-Pitzer tory.
>DENNI DAVID know more than they (Congre) ever want to hear in a formal eion...<
Denni ay that hi mentor had a movie film and photograph of the Kennedy autopy in November 1963. What doe he know of the death of William Pitzer three year later and a year after left Betheda?
>Ak Congre why they haven't called u forward.<
Not an eay thing to do. I imagine "Congre" know you for what you are. And Denni theorized that Bill Pitzer had been murdered becaue he thought that Bill wa left-handed. Denni wa wrong. Hardly jutification for opening an enquiry into anything.
>IF and when the Ruian documentary i re-done for an Englih peaking audience - it will be right in Englih. I am aured of that.<
You mut think people reading thi were born yeterday. The quarrel i not with the Englih -- although it need improvement -- it i with the puriou content that came from you.
>Enough aid from thi end on thi pecific matter.<
No no. Not nearly enough. But you will finee thi a you have fineed o much in the pat.
>Write or call Tim Toidze if you have any further comment.<
I have no intention of contacting him. The error and embellihment in the documentary are between you and him. I am here to point out to the member of thi forum what a crock of crap the Pitzer egment of thi documentary i -- whoever wa reponible. And, judging from how you have reacted and from what you have aid, you are reponible.
>I did not pay for, produce, or will I benefit from it - now or then.<
But you are reponible for the content of one egment. Whoever paid for it and produced it and will benefit from it ought to be angry, or they are not paying attention.
8, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Dr Eagleham, re: your # 32674
I doubt that your motly baele and, in my judgment, primarily PREJUDICIAL effort devoted to wrecking havoc on any honorable effort to make the truth known to the world and to bring jutice to bear on thoe who perpetrated the actual killing and controlled the terrible event urrounding the aaination of Preident Kennedy, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and LCDR William Bruce Pitzer will caue much intelligent debate among thoe who truly care for jutice on thee vitally important matter. More than anything I believe it to be terribly inenitive and callou of you to purpoely orchetrate the development of a foundation of upicion that would lead people to believe that LCDR Wiliam Bruce Pitzer, a U Naval Officer and a patriot who erved hi country well and who wanted only to bring forth evidence that would prove that Preident Kennedy wa aainated by a government conpiracy (without firt jeopardizing hi military retirement, undertanding that any effort to bring that evidence forward prior to retirement would have placed hi own future and even hi life in jeopardy) would take hi own life. That would have to have been the act of a coward and LCDR Pitzer wa no coward. I pray that hi family i not traumatized for too long for the burden you bring to their memory of a good man. If it i one thing that LCDR Pitzer' family hould know in their heart it i that I had no reaon whatoever, other than to eek jutice, to come forward a I did once I wa aware that LCDR Pitzer wa not the traitor the CIA made him out to be when they aked me to urder him, and to contact the widow Pitzer and bring the hame of all that I wa involved in a a potential aain of a Naval hero to haunt my family until thi very day.
9, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
A quick broadening of the ubject in order to avoid the pecific... A cutomary tactic of your. A aid in my lat pot in thi thread, "...you will finee thi a you have fineed o much in the pat."
10, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Dr Eagleham, re: your # 32682
How do you feel about what you are doing to the Pitzer family and friend? Are you part of the CIA' diinformation program? Perhap ome day I will find omeone with courage enough to help me prove to thi forum that you are indeed an enemy of the truth in thi cae a Robin Palmer and I originally upected. Oh how I would that we had not given you the benefit of the doubt, etting aide what had been told me by omeone unfortunately too afraid of repercuion to allow me to ue their name.
omeday you may conider going back thru thi forum and anwering the many quetion I have poed to you and that you have not bothered to touch on. But, I do believe that i aking too much. I will be very pleaed to engage you in an open radio debate followed by quetion from the audience - particulalry if it were a Fayetteville, NC tation where the entire pecial Force Etablihment could join you in their attack. I counterattack with Jeu Chrit a my trength and conviction.
11, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
o,I'm a CIA operative am I? Well, I gue I'm in good company, along with Martin Kelly and Joe Wetmore. You'll recall that, everal year back, you accued them (univerity lecturer and book-tore owner, repectively) of being CIA during a phone call to Robin Palmer' TV how. You apologized to them for your illy outburt not long after. Don't apologize to me; I won't accept it becaue I ee it for what it i -- a willful attempt to deflect attention from the iue at hand.
Regarding the Pitzer: many month ago, long before I aw the autopy photograph, one of the Pitzer on told me that he'd had the photograph examined by two forenic expert, both of whom advied him that they trongly indicate uicide. o, I gue that make three more CIA operative to add to your lit. uch tentacle!
I aw the photograph in the preence of another family member, and howed him picture in Vincent Di Maio' book, "Gunhot Wound," of tight-contact and ditance hot. He agreed that LCDR Pitzer' entry wound wa a tight-contact hot and that the mot likely explanation i uicide. It wa a ad, ad moment.
I puhed a hard a I wa able to have thi cae reopened, and the Naval Criminal Invetigative ervice Cold Cae quad reviewed the file a a reult. I made a cogent cae for murder -- on the bai of a left-temple wound. A a reult of my help, one of the Pitzer on obtained a death-cene photograph under FOIA, which apparently howed blood oozing from the left temple. But that photograph wa of poor quality and from ome ditance away. The fact i, there wa no left-temple wound; in my opinion, a cogent cae for murder can no longer be made. The NCI Cold Cae quad wa right in not reopening the cae.
Your elf-erving muddying of the water with the fantay preented in thi documentary demean the memory of a good man. On everal level you hould be ahamed.
12, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Time will be the judge of the right and wrong of what you and I tate a fact. I eagerly await that judgment. If any of you who read thi doubt my veracity.. Go to me webite www.ExpendableElite.com and pull up "Breaking New". You will ee imilar type action coming from thr the pecial Force Aociation, undoubtedly inlfuenced by their father (the CIA) a they attack and I counterattack. Read my book - Expendable Elite and know the truth and why THEY want it quelled.
13, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Like Jame File and Toh Plumlee, your tory i contantly inconitent.
That fault i your, no one ele, a it i their.
Addre Allan Eagleham' direct point.
Your veracity i eriouly at take and no bullhit book of your i gonna change that.
14, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Mr Robert Vernon, ref: your # 32693
You continue to be an arrogant mater of deception, ubterfuge, innuendo and vulgar language. If you hould ever deire to addre me in the future let it not be with a "Mr." I wa lat a "Mr." when I enlited in the U Army a a recruit in June, 1952.
15, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
And when you left the ervice, you became a Miter again you pompou old goat............
16, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
>And when you left the ervice, you became a Miter again you
No Bob, he i a retired commiioned officer with the United tate Army pecial Force and hi title would be Lt. Col. Daniel Marvin, UA Retired. A formal addre to how repect for what he ha done and earned i Lt. Col. Marvin, or Col. Marvin. But you wouldn't undertand that a it i not taught at Dick Clark Production.
Lt. Col. Marvin, Dr. Eagleham and other have quetioned my loyalty to you here and I can undertand why many are challenging many thing you pot a there are thoe who are at odd with you on the inide. I am in no way vered enough in thee iue that you are at odd with thee people, but I continue to upport and how repect for you for thi imple reaon. Pleae do not take offene, but I did check you out. I wa curiou becaue of the conflict in iue you have here and felt it necceary. Becaue of what I found of your background and the tand you are taking now on the iue of E Aia operation, I have to believe in what you are aying becaue it make no ene for you to be motivated to fabricate. I felt it wa worth the effort becaue you are one of o few who have came forward with critical iue, and we both know that there are o many who could.
I mean no direpect to Dr. Eagleham with thi a he alo appear to be a man of honor and great knowlege. He ha aid in the pat that hi degree i unrelated and the title of Doctor i not neceary, but I am from the old chool and believe in repecting one accomplihment by way of addreing them for what they earned.
Lt. Col. Marvin, if you do take offene to me looking into your background, you hould conider that I am aware you have alo checked me out and I not only do not take offene to that, I repect your thoroughne.
17, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
With repect, but are you paying attention? Have you read thi thread? That old aying come to mind: "Don't confue me with the fact -- I've already made up my mind."
Yeterday Tim Toidze (I believe that he wa the producer of the documentary) copied me on an e-mail that included thee word:
"If Dan Marvin will allow me to end the copy of the original interview to intereted partie, I can do that - o they will ee for themelve the original interview that Dan Marvin gave u and I truly believe that it i more accurate than the hortened ubtitle a een in our documentary."
LTC Marvin reponded:
"I ak that you end no peron a copy of the complete interview. That wa between me and you and to be ued for the Ruian production."
Need more be aid?
What we did decade ago i one thing. What we do today may or may not be omething ele entirely. It i a mitake to freely extrapolate.
18, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Dear Forum Mmeber,
I repond to Dr. Eagleham' # 32732 addreed to Al Carrier: In referenced poting Dr Eagleham quoted from a mall part of an e-mail that I had been good enough to copy to Dr. Eagleham (wanting to be fair and above board) o that he would know why Tim Toidze wuld not be providing him a copy of the complete interview. It i important to note that the complete interview here in Cazenovia, New York, covered other item uch a the Mafia, etc..
A you know Dr. Eagleham poted only thi part of what I wrote to Tim Todize: "I ak that you end no peron a copy of the complete interview. That wa between me and you and to be ued for the Ruian production."
Now for the ret of the tory... I will herein quote the entire e-mail for what it' worth:
"When you repond - pleae repond to me alone with your telephone number if you don't mind.
"Your friend and fellow cruader for the truth,
"LTC Daniel Marvin, U Army pecial Force (Retired) AKA: Dangerou Dan"
Now each of you on thi forum have the entire truth to judge by. omeday the full truth will be known and judgment will be levied on thoe who did the evil.
19, RE: Marvin on Pitzer: Error & Embellihment
Forum Member (if any are till here):
Now you have the relevant part plu the moke. I hope you think it wa worth the time pent reading all of it.
You can't make thi tuff up.
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